Meltdown/negativity thread

[WavetheWheat]

I am sorry if this will be unpopular. The guy isn't ready. The Opurum decision is despicable. You can not make this decision in late August.

Kid absolutely killed for us last year as a true frosh. Busted his ass and broke his leg.

Turner Gill gets an F today. Huge F.

Fuck.

[Protist]

We'll see soon enough. I don't see the need for you to speculate before the fact. Does you really think that you know, just by eyeballing the situation, whether a coach is ready or not to coach a BCS team?

[blackPHOGmoan]

You mean the switch positions a week before the first game isn't a good decision??? YOU'RE FUCKING NUTS!!!!!

[sweaterbydarwin]

Don't like the Opurum move but we'll see. I have no real expectations this season. Honestly, wouldn't be nearly as put out by it if I didn't like TO as much as I do. He seems like a real good kid.

And switching positions is nothing new. Hell, Mangino would do it midweek, mid season.

[KVN638]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS WtW is back and setting up to blow up on this board all year.

[ShooterFlatch]

Put me down for another "NO" on corporal-captain.

I loved Opurum last year, what a bruiser. Very similar to Quigs in style (punishing) yet he didn't turn it over like Quigs. Looks like an awful move when focused on Opurum but it may be more of a statement on how poorly our LB depth is lining up.

[bigkufan]

Terrible move. Makes no sense when you hear things like Steven Foster still hasn't put it together at FB.

[IceHawkE]

Hey WtW, just for once perhaps you could step back and think things through before you start yet another hair-on-fire thread.

TG is in a tough spot. We are very thin at LB with the loss of Tharp for the season and Thomas being punted from the deep, and we are pretty deep at RB. Sometimes coaches are forced to make a move they really don't want to make and I think this is one of those situations.

MM did do this all the time, why are you so fucking up in arms when TG does it?

[Milo]

I would have to agree with you that I do not like the decision. When I heard the news I actually screamed "what the fuck." I like Angus, but he has shown a knack for fumbles. We also only have 1 more year with him. Opurum is young and we could develop him.

It pisses me off that our coach, no matter who it is, takes a very talented member of the offense to plug into a defense that should have been filled by recruiting. Look at the Patterson decision with the old staff. The dude tore it up as WR as a freshman. We yank him. It didn't hurt as much because of our depth at WR the last few seasons. But he was a marginal DB. This one could bite us in the ass. We have several RBs. Opurum is the only proven asset. The other guys at RB hardly touched the ball at all last year.

MM did it all the time, but the only real success story was Gordon. The rest were not as good at their new position as they were at their old.

[WavetheWheat]

Because Ice. He was our leading returning tailback last year who hasn't hardly been able to practice because he broke his freaking leg for us last season. He didn't get a chance to prove what he could do.

Name one other freshman all big 12 player (rivals.com) that has been forced to move sides of the ball.

TO deserved a chance. If he couldn't cut it this year as RB than move him. He shouldn't have lost his job due to broken leg.

Perge.

[Milo]

Hey WtW, just for once perhaps you could step back and think things through before you start yet another hair-on-fire thread.

TG is in a tough spot. We are very thin at LB with the loss of Tharp for the season and Thomas being punted from the deep, and we are pretty deep at RB. Sometimes coaches are forced to make a move they really don't want to make and I think this is one of those situations.

MM did do this all the time, why are you so fucking up in arms when TG does it?


He is in a tough spot, but this screams of panic and is far from a long term solution. We are going to have a rough year. We have a new staff, we lost massive amounts of talent in the skill positions, we have a new QB, new offensive scheme, a tough non con, etc. One of the most stable things you can have is a power running game that can cover for a bad defense by ball control and be the anchor for the team. Quigs can control the ball, but so can Opurum. The difference is Opurum has already had a better year running the ball than Quigs ever did as a true freshman! We may need a solution at the LB, but we will need Opurum back at RB his Junior and Senior years when we start to play the badass "new Big 12" schedule. This decision is pretty inexplicable.

[IceHawkE]

Because Ice. He was our leading returning tailback last year who hasn't hardly been able to practice because he broke his freaking leg for us last season. He didn't get a chance to prove what he could do.

Name one other freshman all big 12 player (rivals.com) that has been forced to move sides of the ball.

TO deserved a chance. If he couldn't cut it this year as RB than move him. He shouldn't have lost his job due to broken leg.

Perge.


The needs of the team are more important than the needs of anyone particular player. The logic and tone of your posts regarding this move seem more like you feel sorry for the TO and perhaps an anti-TG bias. It's like you are looking for a reason to bash TG, just like you look for reasons to bash Lew Perkins.

For the record, I would have loved to see what OP could have done this year on offense, but the coaching staff felt he could help the TEAM better by switching him to LB.

The reality is that no one knows if this is a good move on August 20th.

[Milo]

Because Ice. He was our leading returning tailback last year who hasn't hardly been able to practice because he broke his freaking leg for us last season. He didn't get a chance to prove what he could do.

Name one other freshman all big 12 player (rivals.com) that has been forced to move sides of the ball.

TO deserved a chance. If he couldn't cut it this year as RB than move him. He shouldn't have lost his job due to broken leg.

Perge.


The needs of the team are more important than the needs of anyone particular player. The logic and tone of your posts regarding this move seem more like you feel sorry for the TO and perhaps an anti-TG bias. It's like you are looking for a reason to bash TG, just like you look for reasons to bash Lew Perkins.

For the record, I would have loved to see what OP could have done this year on offense, but the coaching staff felt he could help the TEAM better by switching him to LB.

The reality is that no one knows if this is a good move on August 20th.


You are right, no one knows if this is a good move. We can still express our opinions on it. The same was thought last year when moving Quigs to LB. Staff thought it would help the team. He got placed in purgatory and helped the team zero.

What we do know is that Quigs and Opurum are both bruisers. Opurum was our leading rusher. Quigs has been a career backup with fumble issues. I can see where our opinion isn't based on what we already know.

I'd love to be wrong here.

[Liljohnny]

Everybody keeps saying Quigley is fumble-prone. How many career fumbles does he have? Every place I can find Quigley stats says he has 0 fumbles.

[Hawker007]

What I don't understand is why don't you move Quigley back to LB? He already has a year experience playing there, and you don't move your leading rusher. The only reason I can think of is that Quigley might have told TG that if he moved him back, he would just quit (he has nothing to lose).

[Liljohnny]

What I don't understand is why don't you move Quigley back to LB? He already has a year experience playing there, and you don't move your leading rusher. The only reason I can think of is that Quigley might have told TG that if he moved him back, he would just quit (he has nothing to lose).


I know this sound simplistic but maybe because Quigley was going to be the starting RB and TO wasn't going to play much at RB. You don't move your starting RB to LB and keep your 3rd string RB at RB.

[KVN638]

You guys remember when McDougald and Patterson were moved to defense because our WR depth was so good? Man Mark Mangino would never do anything like that.

[T42YS]

What I really don't understand is how Opurum could be considered the third string RB in the first place. He was a big force for KU last year...when Mangino actually used him.

[Milo]

What I really don't understand is how Opurum could be considered the third string RB in the first place. He was a big force for KU last year...when Mangino actually used him.


Exactly. Quigley may not have a bunch of fumble stats. It was more or less stated that he had the the dropsies in practice, precluding him from being used in 2008 when we had Sharp and Crawford.

We only have two RBs back from last year who carried the ball, and one only carried it 13 times. Quigley has only 76 carries in his career. Opurum has almost twice that.

[pieces of eight]

By making that move, Coach Gill has basically hitched his wagon to Angus Quigley this year.

[snickelfritz]

1. He didn't really "kill" it for us last year. He averaged around 3.6 ypc in conference. Not bad, but nothing great. Even for a true fresh.

2. Fact is, we are 2 weeks from gametime and he is still feeling some tingling in his leg when he cuts. Seems like a waste to wait for him to get 100%, then see if he can catch up, then see if he can beat our Quigs and the others.

3. Taking from point 2......why not just switch him over to a position where we are desperate for a bruiser-type player? It's either that or sit out for the year and redshirt. I'm sure they asked him which he would prefer.


To me it just seems like Opurum is too far behind in terms of his recovery to compete for the RB position, where we actually have some sense of depth. On the other hand, we have 0 depth at LB...we have some backup walkons who probably have fair instincts at that position, but we only have 3-4 good athletes left at that position this year.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

This will be a decision that can't be judged for a few years. I'll just say this: TG spends more time around this team than us and is a better evaluator of talent than we are. Wait until gameday at least.

[All4KU]

I have no problem with the decision. They know more about what's going on, and what needs to be done, than all of us combined.

[Milo]

1. He didn't really "kill" it for us last year. He averaged around 3.6 ypc in conference. Not bad, but nothing great. Even for a true fresh.

2. Fact is, we are 2 weeks from gametime and he is still feeling some tingling in his leg when he cuts. Seems like a waste to wait for him to get 100%, then see if he can catch up, then see if he can beat our Quigs and the others.

3. Taking from point 2......why not just switch him over to a position where we are desperate for a bruiser-type player? It's either that or sit out for the year and redshirt. I'm sure they asked him which he would prefer.


To me it just seems like Opurum is too far behind in terms of his recovery to compete for the RB position, where we actually have some sense of depth. On the other hand, we have 0 depth at LB...we have some backup walkons who probably have fair instincts at that position, but we only have 3-4 good athletes left at that position this year.


The quote from Quigley in the LJworld: “The mentality,” Quigley said. “You have to learn to tackle. I’m sure it’s been a long time since he’s made a tackle. I’m sure that’s going to be the hardest part and covering routes instead of running routes. I feel like it’s always easier running a route when you know where you want to go than to cover a route when you have no idea what the guy across from you is going to do.”

“That linebacker experience was quite an experience,” he said. “It’s really crazy. It can get frustrating. Really, what I’m going to talk to him about is not getting frustrated. He’s been playing running back and it feels natural to him. I know there were days I was frustrated playing linebacker. You get beat on a route because you tried to guess and it’s not coming natural to you because it’s not what you’re used to doing.”

I'd say it would be a fair statement to say that Opurum is too far behind in terms of recovery to be learning an entirely new position which takes quite a bit of know how and skill to learn to do right. He will have been in that position for an entire two weeks before his first game. Quigley moved to LB in the spring last year and hardly cracked the lineup with our LB core last year and had a much time to get into the position.

[snickelfritz]

1. He didn't really "kill" it for us last year. He averaged around 3.6 ypc in conference. Not bad, but nothing great. Even for a true fresh.

2. Fact is, we are 2 weeks from gametime and he is still feeling some tingling in his leg when he cuts. Seems like a waste to wait for him to get 100%, then see if he can catch up, then see if he can beat our Quigs and the others.

3. Taking from point 2......why not just switch him over to a position where we are desperate for a bruiser-type player? It's either that or sit out for the year and redshirt. I'm sure they asked him which he would prefer.


To me it just seems like Opurum is too far behind in terms of his recovery to compete for the RB position, where we actually have some sense of depth. On the other hand, we have 0 depth at LB...we have some backup walkons who probably have fair instincts at that position, but we only have 3-4 good athletes left at that position this year.


The quote from Quigley in the LJworld: “The mentality,” Quigley said. “You have to learn to tackle. I’m sure it’s been a long time since he’s made a tackle. I’m sure that’s going to be the hardest part and covering routes instead of running routes. I feel like it’s always easier running a route when you know where you want to go than to cover a route when you have no idea what the guy across from you is going to do.”

“That linebacker experience was quite an experience,” he said. “It’s really crazy. It can get frustrating. Really, what I’m going to talk to him about is not getting frustrated. He’s been playing running back and it feels natural to him. I know there were days I was frustrated playing linebacker. You get beat on a route because you tried to guess and it’s not coming natural to you because it’s not what you’re used to doing.”

I'd say it would be a fair statement to say that Opurum is too far behind in terms of recovery to be learning an entirely new position which takes quite a bit of know how and skill to learn to do right. He will have been in that position for an entire two weeks before his first game. Quigley moved to LB in the spring last year and hardly cracked the lineup with our LB core last year and had a much time to get into the position.


If anyone is expecting him to play in the first game they are fucking retarded.

[OtisLivingston]

Toben in August 2010 is not Toben in October 2009. There was absolutely no way he would see the field as a RB this season. He's still not back 100% from that injury. He might actually see the field as a LB this season but I doubt it.

There have been things to be unhappy about but this is fucking stupid. Toben will redshirt, unless we have more LB injuries.

THe argument "But he played so well last year, and we gave up on him" is total crap. Yeah, he played really well until he snapped his leg like a chicken bone. You don't come back from that in 9 months and pick up where you left off.

Dude's going to be sitting on the bench all season, he's still hasn't fully recovered from the leg. Does it really matter if it says LB or RB next to his name in the program?

[TBL]

O...M...G....

Turner Gill = Ron Prince


http://www.unlocker-forums.co.uk/images/smilies/suicide.gif

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

Per Rivals:

Rell Lewis injury is not going to affect the Toben move.

Toben (http://kansas.rivals.com/barrier_noentry.asp?ReturnTo=&sid=&script=content. asp&cid=1116666&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid=)

[WavetheWheat]

Here is another fun fact for the Turner Gill Jayhawks...

Players are not allowed to sign their names during autograph sessions, they are to only pen their numbers. Have fun with that kiddos.

[OtisLivingston]

Here is another fun fact for the Turner Gill Jayhawks...

Players are not allowed to sign their names during autograph sessions, they are to only pen their numbers. Have fun with that kiddos.


Prove it.

[WavetheWheat]

Here is another fun fact for the Turner Gill Jayhawks...

Players are not allowed to sign their names during autograph sessions, they are to only pen their numbers. Have fun with that kiddos.


Prove it.

I was next in line after this kid...
http://media.lawrence.com/img/croppedphotos/2010/08/23/Fan_appreciation_006_r400x180.jpg
Here is my "autograph"
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/pick.gif

Okay that is all made up. The truth is I heard it from a friend who was there.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

Here is another fun fact for the Turner Gill Jayhawks...

Players are not allowed to sign their names during autograph sessions, they are to only pen their numbers. Have fun with that kiddos.


Prove it.

I was next in line after this kid...
http://media.lawrence.com/img/croppedphotos/2010/08/23/Fan_appreciation_006_r400x180.jpg
Here is my "autograph"
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/pick.gif

Okay that is all made up. The truth is I heard it from a friend who was there.


Heard it from a friend? Sounds completely legit.

[Milo]

Toben in August 2010 is not Toben in October 2009. There was absolutely no way he would see the field as a RB this season. He's still not back 100% from that injury. He might actually see the field as a LB this season but I doubt it.

There have been things to be unhappy about but this is fucking stupid. Toben will redshirt, unless we have more LB injuries.

THe argument "But he played so well last year, and we gave up on him" is total crap. Yeah, he played really well until he snapped his leg like a chicken bone. You don't come back from that in 9 months and pick up where you left off.

Dude's going to be sitting on the bench all season, he's still hasn't fully recovered from the leg. Does it really matter if it says LB or RB next to his name in the program?


True, so true. On a side note, I personally am glad we have a guy in our linebacker corp that knows how to carry the ball, lead his team in rushing as a freshman, and hasn't made a tackle on defense in 5 years:

Opurum OK with switch to LB (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2010/sep/01/gill-qb-webb-may-play-saturday/)

Everyone expected to play (http://campuscorner.kansascity.com/node/1115)

[Milo]

1. He didn't really "kill" it for us last year. He averaged around 3.6 ypc in conference. Not bad, but nothing great. Even for a true fresh.

2. Fact is, we are 2 weeks from gametime and he is still feeling some tingling in his leg when he cuts. Seems like a waste to wait for him to get 100%, then see if he can catch up, then see if he can beat our Quigs and the others.

3. Taking from point 2......why not just switch him over to a position where we are desperate for a bruiser-type player? It's either that or sit out for the year and redshirt. I'm sure they asked him which he would prefer.


To me it just seems like Opurum is too far behind in terms of his recovery to compete for the RB position, where we actually have some sense of depth. On the other hand, we have 0 depth at LB...we have some backup walkons who probably have fair instincts at that position, but we only have 3-4 good athletes left at that position this year.


The quote from Quigley in the LJworld: “The mentality,” Quigley said. “You have to learn to tackle. I’m sure it’s been a long time since he’s made a tackle. I’m sure that’s going to be the hardest part and covering routes instead of running routes. I feel like it’s always easier running a route when you know where you want to go than to cover a route when you have no idea what the guy across from you is going to do.”

“That linebacker experience was quite an experience,” he said. “It’s really crazy. It can get frustrating. Really, what I’m going to talk to him about is not getting frustrated. He’s been playing running back and it feels natural to him. I know there were days I was frustrated playing linebacker. You get beat on a route because you tried to guess and it’s not coming natural to you because it’s not what you’re used to doing.”

I'd say it would be a fair statement to say that Opurum is too far behind in terms of recovery to be learning an entirely new position which takes quite a bit of know how and skill to learn to do right. He will have been in that position for an entire two weeks before his first game. Quigley moved to LB in the spring last year and hardly cracked the lineup with our LB core last year and had a much time to get into the position.


If anyone is expecting him to play in the first game they are fucking retarded.


Glad I'm fucking retarded along with our head coach and DC.

[Hawker007]

Ouch...burrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnn!

[Milo]

Ouch...burrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnnnn!


http://www.rubinville.com/dailydave/uploaded_images/burnt_toast-724090.jpg

;)

[BillPullman]

kind of a weak week of posting considering it's opening week. does the chat room hurt the amount of posts on this forum or what.

[WavetheWheat]

Right now we don't have enough posters. I have noticed many of our original contributors have made their way back to the Aids board.

We need to slowly build....or have another phog.net explosion.

Also, I think it seems their is less excitement from this football season in general. Its a shame because losing last 7 games, graduating a beloved senior class all while watching our football program implode with accusations of abuse with eventual firing of coach has lead to apathy.

Gill needs to win a few games early to recapture some of the momentum we had built.

[Milo]

kind of a weak week of posting considering it's opening week. does the chat room hurt the amount of posts on this forum or what.


It has been weak, part of the reason I bumped this old post. I figured it was sort of a controversy people could debate. I hope Opurum thrives at LB, but I would much rather see him pound the ball on offense.

There isn't much discussion going on here, but I am staying away from the aidz board.

[Joe Norris]

I agree that chat takes away from posting...there was a huge Big 10 alignment discussion in there yesterday that would have been good on here...I love the chat feature, but a lot of times most of the discussion happens in there

[LimeHawk]

I have been waiting for it to take off here as well. I really can't figure out what the hell is going on around here already. It needs to pick up or all we are going to hear around here is crickets.

[sweaterbydarwin]

we need to advertise. and honestly, a lot of the early vitriol turned people off.

[Joe Norris]

yeah the biggest thing I've seen from people (not even phog people) is that it's like a bunch of high school kids that are trying to outdo each other

hell, it annoys me when people say "f()ck" just because they can....it was pretty busy for awhile, but it's kinda been dying

agreed sweater, we need to advertise...it's unfortunate that a lot of people have gone back to mainly posting over there

[BillPullman]

yeah, the chat feature is great but if you aren't in the chat room you obviously miss it. maybe the chat mod or a volunteer should take some of the good convos that start in there & start threads. maybe could put the dice to good use, loser has to start the thread.

[Joe Norris]

^^^^

I honestly was thinking about starting to do that....but I agree...they should do that...take the convos that aren't just dumb white noise and make threads

[WavetheWheat]

Or we need to "break a story" and have it plastered on the other message boards. that is the Matt Scott method of generating traffic.

The problem with that is if you are wrong more than once....credibility gone.

Hypothetically somebody could post a "JOSH SELBY IS CLEARED" thread in the hoops board and then run to phog saying its true.

[blackPHOGmoan]

My account only works sometime at work. Something to do with cookies or a bagel, or froyo or some snack/computer term I don't get.

Sent from my Evo using Tapatalk

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

Getting back to Toben; his twitter has been interesting lately:

"LOL @ people who think they know more about my recruiting experience than I do... "

"never played LB in high school. "

"5 out of 40 + schools wanted me at FB. That's it. "

"all said and done....I wish today was Saturday cuz I'm ready to get this season on the way. Good luck to everyone who plays tonight "

Toben (http://twitter.com/TheKidToben)

[LimeHawk]

Way to go Randy. Bring the conversation back to something that has to do with football. ;)

So, is Toben saying that he is upset about the change or can you tell from his tweets?

[WavetheWheat]

Getting back to Toben; his twitter has been interesting lately:

"LOL @ people who think they know more about my recruiting experience than I do... "

"never played LB in high school. "

"5 out of 40 + schools wanted me at FB. That's it. "

"all said and done....I wish today was Saturday cuz I'm ready to get this season on the way. Good luck to everyone who plays tonight "

Toben (http://twitter.com/TheKidToben)


These are DIRECT slams against the Admins at the slant. They has been banging their drum saying this is the best move ever. He also has been telling everyone he played linebacker in HS and that no colleges recruited him to play tailback that it was all fullback except KU. Kid is obviously reading the rivals board and he is killing them.

[BillPullman]

Getting back to Toben; his twitter has been interesting lately:

"LOL @ people who think they know more about my recruiting experience than I do... "

"never played LB in high school. "

"5 out of 40 + schools wanted me at FB. That's it. "

"all said and done....I wish today was Saturday cuz I'm ready to get this season on the way. Good luck to everyone who plays tonight "

Toben (http://twitter.com/TheKidToben)


These are DIRECT slams against the Admins at the slant. They has been banging their drum saying this is the best move ever. He also has been telling everyone he played linebacker in college and that no colleges recruited him to play tailback that it was all fullback except KU. Kid is obviously reading the rivals board and he is killing them.


interesting, always wondered how much these guys read message boards. Langford talked about how much they read them in his article in the LJW the other day & now this. Whether he's happy or not w/ the move, it sounds like he has accepted it & is ready to move on & just play.

[Joe Norris]

That is the kind of attitude I want the kid to have...sure it sucks, but look at Kerry Meier...I know it was devastating when TR took over his job, but now he has a play in KU history named after him

THE CATCH (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-1CdnLCUoY)

[Jayhawker]

Everything I've ever seen about Toben has led me to a couple conclusions:

1. He's one hell of an athlete
2. Things like this don't get him down, they motivate him to show just how good he is.

He'll tear it up as a LB, and if given the opportunity, he'll tear it up at RB again.

[Yossarian]

Everybody keeps saying Quigley is fumble-prone. How many career fumbles does he have? Every place I can find Quigley stats says he has 0 fumbles.


Then you're not looking in the right places. Had at least two in the UT game which was the last one he saw considerable playing time at RB in.

[Milo]

I could have sworn he had two in the Texas game, but the box score doesn't reference them.

[Evolvehawk]

Keep it here instead of 10 different threads

[WavetheWheat]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_N7-YCkHPax0/R35tEM-mz9I/AAAAAAAAAf0/v-6L8a-BMZM/s400/manginoSmile.jpg

[WavetheWheat]

http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2001/02/08/KUsportsterryallen_t440.jpg

http://media.publicbroadcasting.net/kcur/newsroom/images/3242171.jpg

[Milo]

Yessir. Keeping up with your Mod duties even after the night you had, I knew my vote was for the right man.

I think we suck, made a bad hire, and am pissed we couldn't even get a TD against a shitty team. I didn't jump off a cliff, but won't sleep well tonight.

[WavetheWheat]

http://liveonyonge.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/nostradamus_by_lemud.jpg

[blackPHOGmoan]

Word.

[Evolvehawk]

merged several threads into this one

[DeutschHistorian]

Not exactly the way you want to start the season. Jeez :dirtybird :dirtybird :dirtybird :dirtybird :dirtybird

[Jayhawker]

I'm drunk and posting on Der Phog.

This can only end well.

Edit: Meh. Got boring when I realized that people were agreeing with me. Oh well.

[WavetheWheat]

Enjoy your legacy you cocksucker.

http://theshiver.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Lew-Perkins.jpg
http://media.al.com/birmingham-news-sports/photo/tgill-1214jpg-43f7786104117460_medium.jpg
http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2004/03/30/basketball__t460.jpg

Now GTFO.

[WavetheWheat]

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/KUsportsterryallen_t440.jpg
http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/gill.jpg

Here he is my fellow KU fans, our coach for the next couple years, Terry Gill or Turner Allen

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/Morph.jpg

[qwertyu123]

As bad as the first game was, you can't blame it completely on Gill.

Most of the players Gill didn't recuit, but i could be wrong about that.

[WavetheWheat]

Mangino would have won that game 38-3. He would have spread them out....and we would have thrown for 350+ yards.

We had 10 men on the field 4 different times, racked up huge penalty yardage, used all timeouts before 8 mins to go in the game, benched our starting QB, moved our leading rusher to LB and the two that replaced him averaged less than 2 yards per carry.

This abortion is square on Turner Gill and his staff.

[qwertyu123]

I think NDSU had more penalties and penalty yard but i could be wrong about that too.

More important than what you mentioned were Biere playing so poorly and the pick by pick.

[blackPHOGmoan]

I think NDSU had more penalties and penalty yard but i could be wrong about that too.

More important than what you mentioned were Biere playing so poorly and the pick by pick.


So NDSU could have beaten us by more? That's what you're saying?

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

Is he holding a fleshlight in that first picture?

[qwertyu123]

I think NDSU had more penalties and penalty yard but i could be wrong about that too.

More important than what you mentioned were Biere playing so poorly and the pick by pick.


So NDSU could have beaten us by more? That's what you're saying?


No, not really. The exact opposite actually.

[WavetheWheat]

Trust in Lew...Trust in Lew...Trust in Lew...

Anybody remember that dogshit. Here is what a non-egotistical dickwad AD does in the situation last November.

When 4-5 players and family come to you as an AD regarding a coach verbally abusing players. Investigate. Uncover nothing. Tell the FP/TC (fucking pussies and team cancers) to hit the road. Tell their parents to hit the road.

You publicly support your coach. You do this in matter of a couple weeks. The remaining members of the team rally around coach or leave. So be it.

Support the best coach Kansas has seen in decades with new assistants is needed or whatever he needs. Rebuild. We were going to have a rough year regardless, but we win last night 45-10 because we spread them out and use our superior WRs to dominate that game.

There was a reason that the spread has made Mizzou and KU relevant. Its a great system for teams that simply can't recruit the beef necessary to run pro-style offense. We never should have scrapped it....Mizzou is still absolutely rolling with it.

Fucking Lew Perkins.....you are the anti-Christ.

[Silasbuddy]

This is just the first game. Do not get your panties is such a wad. Give Coach Gill some time to develop and Chuch Long. This game reminded me a lot of Nebraska last year on both offense and defense, and Nebraska still had a pretty good year. We need to see how KU plays over the next four games. I bet Webb will get more snaps next game and we still have an all american junior college quarterback to try. Pick will start the next game, but he will be on a short leash. This was a throw away season any way and if KU is 0-4 by the start of Big 12 play, they have no where to go but up and wins over KSU & MU will be so much sweeter.

[blackPHOGmoan]

This is just the first game. Do not get your panties is such a wad. Give Coach Gill some time to develop and Chuch Long. This game reminded me a lot of Nebraska last year on both offense and defense, and Nebraska still had a pretty good year. We need to see how KU plays over the next four games. I bet Webb will get more snaps next game and we still have an all american junior college quarterback to try. Pick will start the next game, but he will be on a short leash. This was a throw away season any way and if KU is 0-4 by the start of Big 12 play, they have no where to go but up and wins over KSU & MU will be so much sweeter.


Say it with me now. We. Lost. To. North. Dakota. State. A 3 win FCS team.

[Hawker007]

This is just the first game. Do not get your panties is such a wad. Give Coach Gill some time to develop and Chuch Long. This game reminded me a lot of Nebraska last year on both offense and defense, and Nebraska still had a pretty good year. We need to see how KU plays over the next four games. I bet Webb will get more snaps next game and we still have an all american junior college quarterback to try. Pick will start the next game, but he will be on a short leash. This was a throw away season any way and if KU is 0-4 by the start of Big 12 play, they have no where to go but up and wins over KSU & MU will be so much sweeter.


You are the most optimistic person I have ever seen. Maybe we will get a participation trophy at the end of the season!

[TBL]

Enjoy your legacy you cocksucker.

http://theshiver.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Lew-Perkins.jpg
http://media.al.com/birmingham-news-sports/photo/tgill-1214jpg-43f7786104117460_medium.jpg
http://media.lawrence.com/img/photos/2004/03/30/basketball__t460.jpg

Now GTFO.



Love Lew getting the reach-back job in the third pic.

[Silasbuddy]

"Stay with me, we lost to Noth Dakota State"

It was the first game of the season. Give this team and the coaches a chance to get better and adjust. When KU lost to Ball State in basketball years ago everyone said how bad Ball state has been, but Ball State went on to make the tourney for the first time in years and KU went to the final four. You probably posted something about what a horrible team KU had. I was at the game, North Dakota State did not look like a world beater, I will admit. They did make game saving tackle after game saving tackle through out the game, including that hit on Biere. Biere did not lose the game single handedly, he had help, but those two fumbles killed KU. Again as noted, a 10-6 victory would not have been anything to write home about.

You probably went home crying when the bully punched you in the face, or dropped the class when you got an F on the first test. I will give Turner Gill time to show he can make something with what he has been delt or become another Terry Allen. Very few KU footbal caoches are sucdessful in their first year. Very few KU footbal caoches are successful, period. As I said, this season is a throw away, Turner can not get fired, I am hoping KU can turn this thing around. Gill will be our head football coach for the next 3 years, unless he goes 0-24. You are asumming that will happen, I am not. I am not giving up after one game, besides, I already paid for my season tickets and I can not get my money back.

Hawker, that was funny. A participation trophy would be nice and there is plenty of space in the football trophy case. It will look good next to the one KU will get for the fewest cuss words in a season by a coaching staff given to them by the NACA. The NCAA trophy would be better, however.

[Milo]

"Stay with me, we lost to Noth Dakota State"

Gill will be our head football coach for the next 3 years, unless he goes 0-24.

Thanks for ruining my day.

[CStop]

"Stay with me, we lost to Noth Dakota State"

Gill will be our head football coach for the next 3 years, unless he goes 0-24.


Maybe even 4 years.

Thanks for ruining my day.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

Boy this thread looks interesting, now.

[Geezer]

http://static03.mediaite.com/sportsgrid/power-grid/images/profiles/26301/Screen-shot-2010-05-20-at-1-41-40-PM_x90.jpg

perhaps a new avatar?

[Evolvehawk]

Time to goto the hall

[WavetheWheat]

TIA.

[Evolvehawk]

it's in the hall

[KVN638]

so if we end up 2-2 in the noncon, you're gonna meltdown all over again? That's where msot of us thought we'd be.

[Milo]

Yeah. If left with the choice between victory over Ga Tech or NDSU, Id still pick Ga Tech. I just wish we were more competitive against usm.

[WavetheWheat]

So you guys are penciling in a win next week. Got it.

[Milo]

I think we will win. We are were I thought we'd be after 3 games.

[Joe Norris]

I'm not penciling anything in (see: NDSU)

I just can't see two gigantic flops in one season...Gill will have the guys up for a game

Can't forget that Friday's game was a Freshman's second start, on the road, against a very worthy opponent...not all too surprising that he had a rough go of it

I'm still behind this team 100% and I think they'll come out with some passion next week

[WavetheWheat]

While i appreciate the optimism (lord knows I could use some)

Minus the GTech game (which no doubt we were up for) I see a team that is ill prepared, unorganized, and playing with very little passion.

Read today's article on KUSports.com...
http://www2.kusports.com/news/2010/sep/18/matt-taits-ku-football-notebook/


Getting plays from the coaching booth to the field posed a problem for Kansas University during Friday night’s 31-16 loss at Southern Miss. At various times, on both offense and defense, Kansas’ 11 players on the field were unsure of what calls the coaches were trying to make from the sidelines.

At times, the play clock was to blame. Other times, inexperience was the culprit. Regardless, it made a difficult night even more challenging from start to finish.

“Just a couple times we wanted to get some audibles in,” KU quarterback Jordan Webb said. “That just comes down to me communicating.”

Defensively, the Jayhawks played several snaps during the first half without receiving specific instructions. In the second half, when the calls started coming in, the Jayhawks appeared to play better, stopping the Southern Miss offense on consecutive three-and-out drives to open the third quarter.

“Coach just said be patient and let him get his calls in,” KU’s Chris Harris said. “In the first half, we couldn’t get his calls in, and in the second half we were more patient. We just needed to calm down and relax.”

Harris said the Jayhawks have set defenses they’re supposed to execute when the defensive calls can’t get to the field. He added that playing on the road may have contributed to his team’s frenzied nature.

“We just get a little hurried sometimes,” Harris said.

Come on, coach

For the second time in three weeks, the KU punt team gave up a blocked punt. This one — by USM’s Tim Green — put the Golden Eagles up, 21-3, just before halftime. But it almost never came. USM coach Larry Fedora said his players talked him into trying for the block during a timeout before the kick.

“To be honest with you, I wasn’t going to come after it there,” Fedora said. “But the guys talked me into it on the sideline. Now we’re getting to the thing where they’re taking ownership of this football team, and they take a lot of pride in their special teams. They wanted to come after it, and they said, ‘We’ll stay off of him.’”

Opurum appears

KU sophomore Toben Opurum played his first snaps of the season, lining up at linebacker on KU’s first defensive series of the night. Opurum, a former running back who was moved to linebacker this offseason, did not start, but did rotate in for a couple of plays early on. He appeared to be almost fully recovered from a sprained ankle that kept him out last week. He did not record an official tackle.

Punting problems

In addition to getting one blocked, KU had a rough night in the punting department altogether. On three occasions, the Jayhawks gained very little by electing to punt instead of going for a fourth-down conversion. On its first drive, KU punted from midfield but netted just 30 yards of field position when the kick from Alonso Rojas went into the end zone for a touchback.

On its second drive, KU had reached the Southern Miss 39-yard line and appeared poised to go for it on fourth down. But KU coach Turner Gill changed his mind during a timeout, and Rojas again was sent out to punt. That time, his punt was fair-caught at the 15-yard line, netting 24 yards of a field-position advantage.

Finally, on KU’s second drive of the third quarter, the Jayhawks punted despite reaching the USM 43. On that one, the Rojas kick resulted in just a 23-yard field-position shift.

One other interesting punting note came on KU’s final drive. Trailing 31-16 with just over two minutes to play, Gill elected to punt from his own end zone instead of attempting to gain a first down and keep the game alive. After fielding the punt, USM kneeled on the ball to clinch the game. However, it’s likely Fedora and company would’ve taken the same approach even if the Jayhawks had tried a pass and failed.

Fumble not reviewed

On a crucial USM scoring drive in the third quarter, it appeared as if standout receiver DeAndre Brown had fumbled the ball out of the back of the end zone from the one-yard line, a mishap that would’ve resulted in a touchback for the Jayhawks and kept the score at 21-10, USM. The ruling on the field was that Brown had stepped out at the one before fumbling. Gill, who admitted that he didn’t have a great look at the play, rushed all the way from near midfield down to the one to ask the official for a review.

“I just thought they were going to review it,” Gill said. “They were reviewing everything else so I thought at least that should be reviewed. I didn’t want to waste a timeout, we only had one left, but (the official) said it was clear he was out of bounds.”

Can this be reversed? I hope so. It just hurts so much that we are in a position to be having a head coach in training. Watching Tuberville play Texas toe to toe last night didn't help. Fedora's team was better coached than we were...we didn't even give him an interview.

[KVN638]

because Mangino had our boys prepared, organized, and infused with passion last year...

dude quit beating it to Mangino and let Gill have some time before you decide his worth.

[WavetheWheat]

Kev, only one person in this thread brought up Mangino. You. I am simply making observations on Turner's 3 game career at Kansas.

[Milo]

All valid concerns wtw.

[Silasbuddy]

I am not sure how this season plays out, but getting the plays in from the sidelines seems like something that should not solved in game time situations, but before the first kick off. Are they claiming it was somthing that S. Mississippi officials were causing or it was the set up of the stadium? I read this as a problem with the KU coaching staff and their inexperience on the road and road conditions. This is not good, and something KU coaches should have been aware of with some of the coaching staff coming from S. Mississippi. We should be as up beat as possible, but what ever happen with the side line play calling, offensively and defensively needs to be fixed quickly and permanently.

I am still hopeful for a few more wins this season. If KU ends it preseason 2-2, that was what 80% predicted anyway. KU will still play above expectations against Missouri, KSU, and Nebraska. KU never seems to get too motivated when we play Colorado, ISU, or Baylor. We do not have problems getting up for Texas A&M and Okie St.. I see us winning one against the big three on our schedule, two against the lower three, and winning one against Texas A&M or Okie State since both games are in Lawrence.

That will give us a 6-6 record if KU does what they are capable. KU could easily lose all 5 against the better teams on the schedule and lose on the road to ISU and Baylor. There is no way KU will lose at home to Colorado. That will give KU a 3-9 is the worst schedule that could happen. I would view that as an ominous start for Gill & company. I see KU doing better than 3-9, but no better than 6-6. 6-6 would be an tremendously successful year for Gill and his coaching staff.

[WavetheWheat]

After rewatching the game on DVR, two more things stuck out to me.

1) I am convinced our guys are not in good physical shape. I don't know what the hell happened during practice, but I have never seen so many guys sucking wind and looking like they all are asthmatics. Tons of guys bending over grabbing hips, etc.

2) Would it kill Turner to have an ounce of emotion? When not getting a play call in for the 5th time in the game would it not be a good idea to yell at somebody, throw something or do anything other than stand there with deer in headlights look. I realize Tom Osborn in the day showed no emotion. The stoic, cool, and unemotional coach is a lot cooler when winning by 40 points. I keep waiting for Turner to snap.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

1. When you have a thin depth chart, you get more snaps, which wears you out. The three starters at LB had around 70 snaps for the GT game. That type of repetition isn't sustainable. It'd be interesting to see how many reps each player had for the game.

2. This seems to be a minor issue in the scheme of things. Getting audibles in and folks in the right spots should be a bigger concern and indictment of Gill.

[WavetheWheat]

So apparently 6 year players that were in the "doghouse" were there for a reason.



On James Sims getting 20 carries. Has he earned the status as the feature back and what is the latest on Bourbon

Well, I think at this point in time I would say that James Sims is the back. At this point in time I'd say Sims and Sands will be the guys that will get the majority of the time there. I think he's going to get better and better as he continues to play the game of football here at this level. I think he has done some good things and obviously still has some improvement, but I like what he's doing.

Brandon Bourbon, right now we've kind of got him on hold unless somebody gets hurt and then we'll play him. So right now he's kind of on hold as far as a redshirt goes. In the next game or two if it stays the way it is and no injuries occur then we'll definitely have him on a redshirt path.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/DogHouse.jpg

Once and for all can we please put this myth to rest. There was no "doghouse" there were football player that were not good enough to play. Angus who was the poster child of the mythical "doghouse" was a 6 year player we begged to come back, anointed captain of the team, and now 3 games in has been benched behind 2 true freshman and 1 redshirt freshman.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

So apparently 6 year players that were in the "doghouse" were there for a reason.



On James Sims getting 20 carries. Has he earned the status as the feature back and what is the latest on Bourbon

Well, I think at this point in time I would say that James Sims is the back. At this point in time I'd say Sims and Sands will be the guys that will get the majority of the time there. I think he's going to get better and better as he continues to play the game of football here at this level. I think he has done some good things and obviously still has some improvement, but I like what he's doing.

Brandon Bourbon, right now we've kind of got him on hold unless somebody gets hurt and then we'll play him. So right now he's kind of on hold as far as a redshirt goes. In the next game or two if it stays the way it is and no injuries occur then we'll definitely have him on a redshirt path.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/DogHouse.jpg

Once and for all can we please put this myth to rest. There was no "doghouse" there were football player that were not good enough to play. Angus who was the poster child of the mythical "doghouse" was a 6 year player we begged to come back, anointed captain of the team, and now 3 games in has been benched behind 2 true freshman and 1 redshirt freshman.


I'd really like to hear you try to persuade Jon Cornish that there wasn't a doghouse under Mangino.

[WavetheWheat]

And I have said over and over one former player coming out and saying negative things about a former coach proves absolutely nothing. Any coach in America has players that love them and players that hate them. Nothing new here. Talk to any former player at any level. 50% will say they loved the coach they played for and 50% will say they hated him. Its just how football works.

The doghouse couldn't be sillier myth. Talk about counter intuitive, what's more likely a coach benching player that could help him win for some type of odd grudge or hardheadedness or that those players either were simply not good enough to crack starting roster at that time. The idea that a coach would purposely sabotage himself for a grudge is just plain goofy.

[RandytheHelpfulPineapple]

And I have said over and over one former player coming out and saying negative things about a former coach proves absolutely nothing. Any coach in America has players that love them and players that hate them. Nothing new here. Talk to any former player at any level. 50% will say they loved the coach they played for and 50% will say they hated him. Its just how football works.

The doghouse couldn't be sillier myth. Talk about counter intuitive, what's more likely a coach benching player that could help him win for some type of odd grudge or hardheadedness or that those players either were simply not good enough to crack starting roster at that time. The idea that a coach would purposely sabotage himself for a grudge is just plain goofy.


So you're saying he's a liar? Jon never said he disliked him, he listed specific examples of 'punishment'.

[WavetheWheat]

I am not calling him a liar; I am saying he is silly to think that this "doghouse" actually existed. The idea of a coach keeping a better player who could help you win benched because of a grudge is counter intuitive.

So if Jon was here I would tell him that perhaps those receiving, "the doghouse treatment" were not ready to start at that time or perhaps they were not ever good enough to start to begin with.

The ONLY thing that could have a shred of truth is a coach benching a non-motivated player to try to change attitude. But that doesn't fit with the "mythical doghouse" because in that model the coach is trying to help the young man play better versus burying them on the depth chart to never be seen again.

Lets let this one go...It was a really really dumb notion to begin with....there are things to be mad at our former coach about without making stuff up.

[Milo]

I am not calling him a liar; I am saying he is silly to think that this "doghouse" actually existed. The idea of a coach keeping a better player who could help you win benched because of a grudge is counter intuitive.

So if Jon was here I would tell him that perhaps those receiving, "the doghouse treatment" were not ready to start at that time or perhaps they were not ever good enough to start to begin with.

The ONLY thing that could have a shred of truth is a coach benching a non-motivated player to try to change attitude. But that doesn't fit with the "mythical doghouse" because in that model the coach is trying to help the young man play better versus burying them on the depth chart to never be seen again.

Lets let this one go...It was a really really dumb notion to begin with....there are things to be mad at our former coach about without making stuff up.


It was pretty inexplicable why Clark Greene was getting carries over Cornish, just sayin.

[vorsk]

WtW, you have to be wrong about something, at least once, right?

[IceHawkE]

I am not calling him a liar; I am saying he is silly to think that this "doghouse" actually existed. The idea of a coach keeping a better player who could help you win benched because of a grudge is counter intuitive.

So if Jon was here I would tell him that perhaps those receiving, "the doghouse treatment" were not ready to start at that time or perhaps they were not ever good enough to start to begin with.

The ONLY thing that could have a shred of truth is a coach benching a non-motivated player to try to change attitude. But that doesn't fit with the "mythical doghouse" because in that model the coach is trying to help the young man play better versus burying them on the depth chart to never be seen again.

Lets let this one go...It was a really really dumb notion to begin with....there are things to be mad at our former coach about without making stuff up.


It was pretty inexplicable why Clark Greene was getting carries over Cornish, just sayin.


Or why Steven Johnson was getting dicked around.

[blackPHOGmoan]

For the most part, the doghouse was created by players not good enough to win in the Big 12. You hear about it all levels, including high school (coach didn't like me, political, etc). For every Cornish (which I'm not sure the complete story. IIRC, he was consistently injured, or had a lingering injury that kept him from practicing at full speed.), there are 25 Ango Quigs (bad at football). A coach will put players that give him the best chance of winning on the field. One broken tackle against Texas doesn't mean Angus Quigley was ever a good running back.

[Evolvehawk]

Coaches are human


Humans are mean, petty, spiteful, and often do things not in their own best interest

are you guys blind?

[blackPHOGmoan]

Coaches are human


Humans are mean, petty, spiteful, and often do things not in their own best interest

are you guys blind?


So you still want Angus Quigley starting? Gotcha. He's better than BMac, Sharp, and TO. Mangino just didn't like him. He's proved that this year.

And by proved, I mean went from starting to 3rd act behind Kidd n Play.

[Jayhawker]

I'll be that guy.

This is why he should have left Toben at rb and Quigley at lb.

[Milo]

I'll be that guy.

This is why he should have left Toben at rb and Quigley at lb.


I'm behind you.

[KVN638]

I'll be that guy.

This is why he should have left Toben at rb and Quigley at lb.


or just left Quigley at LB and moved TO to there. I loved TO's running style last year. But he was hardly a good back during conference play. I think his numbers were near 3 YPC in conference.

[Jayhawker]

Gill would gain a lot of points in my book if he switched them back. I know people got frustrated with mid season roster moves last year, but now is the time to man up and admit he made a mistake. Toben's talent is being wasted on the sidelines while he waits for the chance to get put it on defense. Quigley's LB experience is being wasted as well. Was he the best LB on the field last year? No. But he at least has some experience.

What's the harm of moving them now anyways? It's not like either of them are getting playing time now anyways.

Edit: Kev, I think think Toben's numbers took a hit because of Mangino's insistence to use Sharp as much as possible.

[KVN638]

and the playcalling was horrible for him. They used Sharp and TO terribly.

Moving TO back would be a bad decision at this point. It'd just send the wrong message to all the RB's. Sims has been playing well. He should stay there. TO and Quigs are needed at LB b/c we are paper thin at that position. Our LB's have been getting 70 snaps a game. Think about that.

[Milo]

and the playcalling was horrible for him. They used Sharp and TO terribly.

Moving TO back would be a bad decision at this point. It'd just send the wrong message to all the RB's. Sims has been playing well. He should stay there. TO and Quigs are needed at LB b/c we are paper thin at that position. Our LB's have been getting 70 snaps a game. Think about that.


At this point, TO needs to stay at LB. I think Sims has proven himself as a better runner. I didn't agree with the move in the first place, but our LBs are pretty thin in the depth chart. Hopefully TO will become a good LB, or be happy with the move. If not, he'll probably transfer. So be it. What is done is done, and lets just develop our younger quicker guys. I don't see us utilizing TO as a FB with this offense either. It sucks, but it is done. Quigs didn't light the world on fire as a LB. Just stick him in on special teams and let him hit people. That seems to be Quigs strong suit anyway.

I would like to see TO being used in some fashion. He is one of our better football players and to hide him on the bench would be a misuse of some serious talent, and a good sized body.

I know this seems to be a contradiction in my point that TO should have stayed at RB, but what is done is done and we seem to be okay in the running game now. Mangino did what was necessary with Quigley last year because he isn't our best option at running the ball, and never has been.

[ztella]

Lol @ consistently hurt. I was going to play as a true freshmen till I got a hip pointer and only ended up playing one game. Enter my freshman spring camp and I tear my quad but was forced to still practice. The fact I refused to go riled mansion up so much I did sit in the doghouse for three years. I have zero doubt i was just as fast as I was in my junior year that I was in my redshift freshman year but I never even got the chance. My sophomore year I didn't get a single carry during camp... Stuff like that is the doghouse.

Angus was in the dog house for different reasons. I always went to class and never got in trouble. Angus would miss workouts and skip. He also ran too upright and had a bad case of fumblitis.

Anyways... Yes there is such thing as a doghouse and it doesn't take much to get into it for a long period of time. Remember the only reason I got to play was because of Jon R 8)andles departure and injuries at the rb position. I wouldn't be posting here right now if JR didn't get hurt.

[Evolvehawk]

Lol @ consistently hurt. I was going to play as a true freshmen till I got a hip pointer and only ended up playing one game. Enter my freshman spring camp and I tear my quad but was forced to still practice. The fact I refused to go riled mansion up so much I did sit in the doghouse for three years. I have zero doubt i was just as fast as I was in my junior year that I was in my redshift freshman year but I never even got the chance. My sophomore year I didn't get a single carry during camp... Stuff like that is the doghouse.

Angus was in the dog house for different reasons. I always went to class and never got in trouble. Angus would miss workouts and skip. He also ran too upright and had a bad case of fumblitis.

Anyways... Yes there is such thing as a doghouse and it doesn't take much to get into it for a long period of time. Remember the only reason I got to play was because of Jon R 8)andles departure and injuries at the rb position. I wouldn't be posting here right now if JR didn't get hurt.


:popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn :popcorn

Thanks for stopping by Jon

[ShooterFlatch]

Dear Nebraska game HERO!!!! (I hope you have some idea of how big that game was to long-time suffering KU football fans.......)

You say Quigley had fumblitis yet I recall seeing a fairly good piece somewhere showing that his fumbles weren't really that bad in game play. A rather suspect stat given the depth of the data pool, i.e. very few game time carries. Did he cough it up in practice a bunch giving him that reputation?

It doesn't matter too much as it is clear where the carries need to go. I do wish TO could somehow be given another shot though as his recruitment came under a different staff with some promises and I hate seeing him get the shaft. I liked his style last year. That said, if he can't win out over the other RB's then that is that.....

[Evolvehawk]

wave's been pretty quiet today

[KVN638]

wave's been pretty quiet today


eh, he has quite the reputation of just ignoring posts when he knows his response (if he keeps his same tune) will make him look like a jackass. Any post that has logic to it, he ignores and he will respond to another.

Cornish just owned him and he's gonna bitch out like always.

[WavetheWheat]

Well I have not been on board all day. I guess you probably could have seen that by lack of posting and no visits to chat room, but its more fun and dramatic to say I am hiding from this thread.

None of this is new news, ztella has regaled us with his side of this story before. I personally would like to read/hear unanimous coach of the year in 2007 (Associated Press, ESPN/ABC, The Sporting News, Football Writers Association, Walter Camp Football Foundation, National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Association, American Football Coaches Association, the Maxwell Football Club (George Munger Award), Woody Hayes National Coach of the Year) view point on this story. We already established that ztella believes a "doghouse" existed. So you now have confirmation of what you have already brought up in the thread already? How does this change anything?

I have told you 1000 times for every Jon Cornish there are 3 or 4 that will back Mangino until the day they die. Its just a fact of being a head football coach at any level. You have players that will like you and those that don't. Perhaps the message ztella got during his time on the bench was exactly what he needed to motivate him to excel? Perhaps Mangino underestimated ztella's ability? Who knows? I do know this, if Mark Mangino felt that AT THAT TIME Jon Cornish could help Kansas win football games he would have played him. For whatever reason he chose not to. To believe that Mark Mangino would sacrifice his livelihood because of some made up grudge or fictional doghouse is asinine.

Angus was in a doghouse because he is not a very good running back. Many, including on this site, told us all to "look out for Angus" now that he has a chance and is "out of the doghouse" he will succeed. He was let out and he still not very good...something I think we established during his 5 previous years at Kansas.

As for Jon, I have no interest in getting into an internet argument with him as he was a great Jayhawk and a hell of a football player that I cheered for every Saturday, but I leave you with this....Thanks to his time at University of Kansas, Jon can live a comfortable life playing a game; something I am sure quite a few of us would trade places with him in a heartbeat. Without Mark Mangino and without the University of Kansas it is a distinct possibility Jon's life would be significantly different and not have anything to do with playing football.

Rock Chalk ztella, thanks for everything you did in Crimson and Blue. Good luck with future endeavors.

[WavetheWheat]

eh, he has quite the reputation of just ignoring posts when he knows his response (if he keeps his same tune) will make him look like a jackass. Any post that has logic to it, he ignores and he will respond to another.

Cornish just owned him and he's gonna bitch out like always.
Good to see you embrace the new board, Kev. Very phog like post from you here. We all expect better. Really no reason for this type of post here.

[KVN638]

eh, he has quite the reputation of just ignoring posts when he knows his response (if he keeps his same tune) will make him look like a jackass. Any post that has logic to it, he ignores and he will respond to another.

Cornish just owned him and he's gonna bitch out like always.
Good to see you embrace the new board, Kev. Very phog like post from you here. We all expect better. Really no reason for this type of post here.


well when you post the same garbage over and over, in new threads, over and over, then bitch about those threads being merged, just like you did on phog... you get phog like responses.


BTW... if you're going to list all his awards, let's list his faults. Throw in resigned amidst incredible controversy.

seriously, quit doing the same ole' shit. You can't say, 'I TOLD YA SO' after every loss then say, 'Let's wait and see if he's a good coach after a few more games' after every win. It's incredibly hypocritical and annoying. How about waiting to meltdown until you see how this season turns out.

[WavetheWheat]

well when you post the same garbage over and over, in new threads, over and over, then bitch about those threads being merged, just like you did on phog... you get phog like responses.


BTW... if you're going to list all his awards, let's list his faults. Throw in resigned amidst incredible controversy.


**AIDZ POSTIVE**

[KVN638]

lol alright man. You make this board fresh and new. Everyone thinks so.

[Milo]

Well I have not been on board all day. I guess you probably could have seen that by lack of posting and no visits to chat room, but its more fun and dramatic to say I am hiding from this thread.

None of this is new news, ztella has regaled us with his side of this story before. I personally would like to read/hear unanimous coach of the year in 2007 (Associated Press, ESPN/ABC, The Sporting News, Football Writers Association, Walter Camp Football Foundation, National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Association, American Football Coaches Association, the Maxwell Football Club (George Munger Award), Woody Hayes National Coach of the Year) view point on this story. We already established that ztella believes a "doghouse" existed. So you now have confirmation of what you have already brought up in the thread already? How does this change anything?

I have told you 1000 times for every Jon Cornish there are 3 or 4 that will back Mangino until the day they die. Its just a fact of being a head football coach at any level. You have players that will like you and those that don't. Perhaps the message ztella got during his time on the bench was exactly what he needed to motivate him to excel? Perhaps Mangino underestimated ztella's ability? Who knows? I do know this, if Mark Mangino felt that AT THAT TIME Jon Cornish could help Kansas win football games he would have played him. For whatever reason he chose not to. To believe that Mark Mangino would sacrifice his livelihood because of some made up grudge or fictional doghouse is asinine.

How do you know, did you attend every practice, every film session, every coaches meeting, eat dinner with Mangino while he confided in you all the personnel issues of the team when he was notoriously secretive? I call bullshit. You act like the man is Bear Bryant or something.

Angus was in a doghouse because he is not a very good running back. Many, including on this site, told us all to "look out for Angus" now that he has a chance and is "out of the doghouse" he will succeed. He was let out and he still not very good...something I think we established during his 5 previous years at Kansas.

As for Jon, I have no interest in getting into an internet argument with him as he was a great Jayhawk and a hell of a football player that I cheered for every Saturday, but I leave you with this....Thanks to his time at University of Kansas, Jon can live a comfortable life playing a game; something I am sure quite a few of us would trade places with him in a heartbeat. Without Mark Mangino and without the University of Kansas it is a distinct possibility Jon's life would be significantly different and not have anything to do with playing football.

Thanks. We all appreciate the completely unnecessary statement you use to basically cover up and sugar coat you calling him a liar, a bitter former player, or just wrong in his assessment of a situation he had personal knowledge about, while you sit in the stands every Saturday and make speculation on what goes on at practice, player meetings, inside the training room, and coaches meetings. I'll go ahead and believe ztella on this one, I'd think he'd know more than you. I also think he earned his credibility by breaking the anonymity and answering the question as quickly and plainly as possible without throwing stones. He's broken anonymity, and come out and spoken his mind on a controversial subject, there aren't many who would do that. He also did it without throwing stones and answered as matter of fact as he could. Yes, Mangino gave KU the best season we have ever enjoyed. He did good. Was/is he the greatest, most knowledgeable, awesome coach in the country? No. Did he make mistakes on player ability and judgment? You'd be a fool to say no, because every coach does.

Rock Chalk ztella, thanks for everything you did in Crimson and Blue. Good luck with future endeavors.

[Scotch McAngus]

You know WaveTheWheat.... I haven't decided if you are a genius or a mental patient. I will update you when I have decided.

[WavetheWheat]

You know WaveTheWheat.... I haven't decided if you are a genius or a mental patient.
Perhaps that is the genius?

[hackh34]

I love how the running game shows nice improvement over three games (mostly due to the performance of a true freshman that has shown more true running back potential than last year's leading rusher), a very touted freshman is able to keep his redshirt, a guy that no one thought would contribute much (Sands) shows he might be a long term suitable back up or at least guy that can steal some carries, depth is added to an extremely thin position (LB), and people still bitch and whine about the Toben move. If the running game is struggling (or, if it does struggle in the future), I could understand it.
I'm sorry Toben had to switch positions and I hope the best for him, but there's a numbers game that people love to ignore bitch for the sake fo bitching.

[WavetheWheat]

Hi Hank.

Toben has made a huge impact at LB. So you got that going for you.

Angus has made a HUGE impact a RB, so the decision to move him to RB and make him a captain proved genius as well.

Nobody will convince me that Toben couldn't be having same numbers as angus/sims....Angus could have already helped us as LB.....but then again he was going to QUIT if we didn't let him be RB....how did we reward this behavior? Make him captain.

[hackh34]

1. Toben has had a chance to play 1 game at LB. I wasn't making a case that he has made a huge impact. We're one rolled ankle from having guys like Brian Blackwell, Chea Peterman (who is dinged up himself) and Steve Mestan getting significant PT at the position. I'm not saying Toben is better than those guys at this point, but it's a position sorely hurting for depth right now.
2. It is difficult for anyone who has watched Sims and Toben to argue that Sims doesn't have more overall RB skills than Toben does. I'm not saying Toben isn't a good RB (when healthy). Under a specific scheme tailored to his strengths, I think he could be very productive. But, that would require tailoring an offense to his strengths (which Mangino did last year). Sims offers more versatility to the offense. He's shown an ability to manufacture big gains with his movement and vision, something that's important for a team with OL issues.
3. The last time we saw Toben at RB (during the spring game), he was struggling to come back from injury. He supposedly has healed, but none of us know what he looks like at RB now. We heard practice buzz about a lot of players this summer, but little about Toben when he was at RB. It's entirely possible that post injury he's better suited for a position like LB that requires less cutting, and that he's not the RB we all remember from last year. Or it just could mean that it was going to take significant time for him to truly get back to 100% period. People opine on this like they've watched the same amount of practice performance that Gill has.
4. I don't know if Angus was ever meant to be a Big 12 starter at any position. I don't know if his position moves should be judged a success/failure based on how many yards he has. If he provides value as a back up and can steal some carries in a game (like he more or less did against Ga Tech), then I'm not sure what people would want otherwise.
5. Agree that Angus shouldn't have been the captain, but not for the reason you're complaining about. Simply put, need a captain that's on the field. Your "he was rewarded for not quitting" argument isn't logical. You make it sounds as if it was an ultimatum that he delivered to Gill, which is a concept you fabricated. He asked if he could stay on, Gill said sure, he worked hard through the spring and summer (per all accounts) and his teammates chose him as captain. That's why he was chosen captain, not because he didn't quit. But, you're the king of tangents so I won't argue that any more. It'll probably eventually be a moot point anyway. With the losses of Todd, Jake and Kerry, young guys that weren't "typical" captains were going to have to step into leadership positions. I don't really know who should have been captain. Hopefully Webb can continue to develop and mature over the course of the season that he fulfills the captain role (without officially being one) at some point.
6. For the 1,000 time, there is a numbers issue this season and the next two at RB. There is Toben (fan favorite because he was highly regarded and led the team in rushing last year), Bourbon (fan favorite because he's a 4*) and Sims (fan favorite because he was a successful Texas high school player). At some point, a fan favorite wasn't going to get PT and would likely transfer or change positions. Then the rallying cry would be "I can't believe Gill recruited Bourbon as a RB and switched him to LB" or "I can't believe Gill ran off Sims." On top of that, KU might get a recruit like Darrien Miller.
I'm not blanket defending Gill here. I still want to know what happened with the Daily fiasco last week. I want to know if the compliance office screwed up, or if it was the coaching staff. I'm not happy about Gill's response on not calling a timeout to hopefully help the non-USM touchdown get overturned. I'm not happy about time management in general. I'm still troubled by the NDSU effort.
But I'm tired of the consistent logic fails of much of the Gill criticism. The running backs have averaged a healthy 141 yards per game the last two games against quality opponents. Your argument is basically that production could be the same with Toben . Usually, the purpose of criticism is to suggest a decision yielded less desirable results than an alternative. Your criticism is that Gill could have maybe accomplished the same thing if he would have acted differently. What did he do wrong, exactly? Really, is the crux of all of this that is was a bad decision because things might have been as good as they are now?
Again, if our running game significantly falters over the course of the season, I think it's fair to revisit the Toben decision. But it's ridiculous at this point. It's bitching for the sake of bitching. Just like the flawed complaints that Gill is spending significant time making rules that he could otherwise be spent coaching.

[WavetheWheat]

The other thread needs to be merged with this and bring it back to the gridiron board.

[Evolvehawk]

The other thread needs to be merged with this and bring it back to the gridiron board.


done

[Joe Norris]

THE MODS HERE SUCK

THIS SITE SUX

el jefe sux

[Evolvehawk]

THE MODS HERE SUCK

THIS SITE SUX

el jefe sux


edited for truthfulness

[WavetheWheat]

This has to be a message board first. Has "hall status" ever been revoked.

Turner Gill's transformation into Terry Allen is almost complete. The only question left for me is will he surpass TA sucktitudeness.

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii61/wavinwheat/Morph.jpg

[Scotch McAngus]

Turner Gill's transformation into Terry Allen is almost complete. The only question left for me is will he surpass TA sucktitudeness.


Gill wont have the chance to reach TA levels. The guy has a few seasons to prove any worth he may have and then BOOM. No need to cry yourself to sleep Wave, if Gill can't cut it he wont see more than 3 seasons.

[WavetheWheat]

3 seasons is enough to put us back to the cellar of the Big 12 for good. Hell he has accomplished it in 5 games.

[Joe Norris]

I think Mangino put us in the cellar

Gill is just trying to find the light

[WavetheWheat]

Should this be the only thread in history to go into the hall as a 'ha ha, Turner Gill is actually really good' then out of the hall because 'oh shit maybe he is bad' and then back to the hall for 'crap, WtW was right.'

[Jayhawker]

I think everyone on Phog is almost ready to start apologizing to you and FinalFinal now.